tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post115713020066382573..comments2023-06-22T02:27:01.854-07:00Comments on Shiraz Socialist: Pilger Goes Madvoltaires_priesthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00346308174248473666noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157405480864871672006-09-04T14:31:00.000-07:002006-09-04T14:31:00.000-07:00and because this blog may become an important hist...<I>and because this blog may become an important historical source...</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, it will. "Source" of what though, that's the question ;-)voltaires_priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346308174248473666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157385795322318862006-09-04T09:03:00.000-07:002006-09-04T09:03:00.000-07:00In fairness to Tony Benn (and because this blog ma...In fairness to Tony Benn (and because this blog may become an important historical source...), I should put it on record that I wasn't being 100% precise when I stated that he directly compares bin Laden/al-Qaida with Mandela/ANC: what he *does* say in what seems to be his standard speech these days is something along the lines of "people who are called terrorists usually end up being called freedom fighters and even being recognised as statesmen. It happened to Nelson Mandela and I've no doubt it will happen to those being denounced as 'terrorists' at the moment"...so you can draw your own conclusions. At a meeting I attended recently, Benn *did* make a direct comparison between the "Iraqi resistance" (undifferenciated) and the ANC.Jim Denhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00364272346989690845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157320101273929872006-09-03T14:48:00.000-07:002006-09-03T14:48:00.000-07:00Hey Jules -Yeah, the ANC are cool.I particularly l...Hey Jules -<BR/><BR/>Yeah, the ANC are cool.<BR/><BR/>I particularly liked the bit where they privatised South Africa's water supply. That was ace.<BR/><BR/>Hezbollah are pretty wicked, too. That stuff about "gathering all the Jews in Israel so we can kill them all at once"? Fucking diamond.<BR/><BR/>Like you say - they're anti-imperialist, innit?<BR/><BR/>And being honest, it would be a bit much to expect brown people to develop much more than a Stalinist (South Africa) or Islamist (Lebanon) consciousness. Gotta be realistic.<BR/><BR/>Or not. Twat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157233923946931622006-09-02T14:52:00.000-07:002006-09-02T14:52:00.000-07:00Volty""We are all Hebollah"? Bollocks. Some of us ...Volty<BR/>""We are all Hebollah"? Bollocks. Some of us are socialists"<BR/><BR/>And I would add some of us still want a secular socialist world .stroppybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17084299441558297740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157192092397825352006-09-02T03:14:00.001-07:002006-09-02T03:14:00.001-07:00Don't be obtuse Jules - as we both know, I meant "...Don't be obtuse Jules - as we both know, I meant "the same" in political charater. Which they plainly are not. One being a democratic, multi-ethnic movement for national liberation (that's the ANC btw) and the other being a Shia theocratic group, albeit one that's garnered support beyond its cultural base. Ergo, not the same thing. <BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't actually have any interest in marching about yelling that Hezb are "terrorists". However it does irk me when people come up with asinine and fantasy-led "analyses" of that movement, that are patent nonsense. You might want Hezb to be the ANC de nos jours, but they clearly aren't, and no amount of cloud-cuckoo land characterisation of them is going to change that.<BR/><BR/>"We are all Hebollah"? Bollocks. Some of us are socialists.voltaires_priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346308174248473666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157190245137917912006-09-02T02:44:00.000-07:002006-09-02T02:44:00.000-07:00Yes VP I think Hizbullah are currently the governm...Yes VP I think Hizbullah are currently the government of South Africa and the ANC are rebuilding southern Lebanon.<BR/><BR/>Or rather not.<BR/><BR/>The point is not that they are the "same", but to an extent they are cut from the same cloth: two liberation movements with mass based support fighting popular causes against racist and imperialist oppression. <BR/><BR/>What I am arguing is that people who describe Hizbullah as "terrorists" are no better than the people who called the ANC "terrorists", its really shameful behaviour for a socialist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157181702657584462006-09-02T00:21:00.000-07:002006-09-02T00:21:00.000-07:00Boogster, racism directed against Arabs as South A...Boogster, racism directed against Arabs as South Asians as "Muslims" is racism, whether the word being used is "Muslim" or not.voltaires_priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346308174248473666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157155674871694202006-09-01T17:07:00.000-07:002006-09-01T17:07:00.000-07:00Jim said:This jerk's anti-American / anti Israeli ...Jim said:<BR/><BR/><I>This jerk's anti-American / anti Israeli racism...</I><BR/><BR/>Please God, make Liberals stop equating every fucking thing they don't like in this world with "racism". Israelis aren't a "race" any more than Americans or Muslims. And no, Volty. Muslims are not a race, in spite of your valiant attempts to portray them as such.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157151602894007942006-09-01T16:00:00.000-07:002006-09-01T16:00:00.000-07:00Yeah - apart from those of us who are Socialists, ...Yeah - apart from those of us who are Socialists, Democrats, non-anti-semites, etc etc :D:D:Dvoltaires_priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346308174248473666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157151316210176512006-09-01T15:55:00.000-07:002006-09-01T15:55:00.000-07:00VPNow you know we are all hezbollah now :-)VP<BR/><BR/>Now you know we are all hezbollah now :-)stroppybirdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17084299441558297740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157146367723839602006-09-01T14:32:00.000-07:002006-09-01T14:32:00.000-07:00You think Hezbollah are the same as the ANC, Jules...You think Hezbollah are the same as the ANC, Jules? <BR/><BR/>Jeeez....voltaires_priesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00346308174248473666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28924640.post-1157138144409046802006-09-01T12:15:00.000-07:002006-09-01T12:15:00.000-07:00Jaysus Grim, what a diatribe, even by your standar...Jaysus Grim, what a diatribe, even by your standards!<BR/><BR/>First of all Tony Benn does not liken Bin Laden to Nelson Mandella and you know that is the case.<BR/><BR/>As for Pilger - has he embraced Islamism or does he support the right of people to resist the sort of brutal imperialist violence he has spent his life opposing? <BR/><BR/>And are you seriously suggesting that Hizbullah are a "terrorist" organisation? If so, then such an opinion is no better than Thatcher's description of the ANC as a terrorist organisation imo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com