Will Rubbish gets something right!
Many of you will be aware that Will Rubbish and I disagree about a lot of stuff. In particular we disagree over his support for the Iraq war, which I understand was a decision he took for honourable reasons, even if he is still completely wrong.
But fucking hell, he just might have a point about Grayham from Harry's Place, who appears to believe that not only was the Iraq War the right thing to do, but that it has been won, and that the war going on in Iraq now is different from the one that began in September 2003. I quote Grayham himself, from the comments on this post:
"1) The war we supported has ended and the commander in chief of the opposition has been executed.
2) Several progressive leftist organisations supported itand
3) Despite support from both the BNP and paleo-conservatives such as antiwar.com :not to mention initial support from many ordinary people, the supposedly 'progressive left' organisations who opposed the war failed to either stop it or even to keep a tiny fraction of the supporters they had to begin with. Their stand was (in anyones book) an enormous failure and has led to massive dissapointment and the embracing of right-wing ideas.
So, I'm quite happy with where support for this war has brought me personally, as I have not been forced to sell my beliefs cheaply.
What about you? Still think you are 'on the left?'
Despite the evidence?"
Now Will, at least tell me that you don't share that position?
Further, when challenged about this by my good self, Grayham's response was even better:
"Unfortunately it is the same one as eight weeks ago. It is not however, the same one as three years ago.
Only a lunatic could try and sell the idea that an entity is fighting the same war against a different enemy - and it just goes to show how deluded some anti-war people have become in the face of the massive failure which was their 'mass movement.'
Face it. You NEED it to be the same war don't you?"
Err ok, Mr Ham. It's me who's the nutter, obviously...
I'm not sure whether I'd fully agree with Will's conclusions about linking to Harry's Place; he thinks that any leftist who still links to them should "have their fucking head examined". I can certainly see where he's coming from though. And as for Grayham, if he really believes all that crap about there having been two Iraq wars since 2003, then maybe he's the one who needs the head examination.
But fucking hell, he just might have a point about Grayham from Harry's Place, who appears to believe that not only was the Iraq War the right thing to do, but that it has been won, and that the war going on in Iraq now is different from the one that began in September 2003. I quote Grayham himself, from the comments on this post:
"1) The war we supported has ended and the commander in chief of the opposition has been executed.
2) Several progressive leftist organisations supported itand
3) Despite support from both the BNP and paleo-conservatives such as antiwar.com :not to mention initial support from many ordinary people, the supposedly 'progressive left' organisations who opposed the war failed to either stop it or even to keep a tiny fraction of the supporters they had to begin with. Their stand was (in anyones book) an enormous failure and has led to massive dissapointment and the embracing of right-wing ideas.
So, I'm quite happy with where support for this war has brought me personally, as I have not been forced to sell my beliefs cheaply.
What about you? Still think you are 'on the left?'
Despite the evidence?"
Now Will, at least tell me that you don't share that position?
Further, when challenged about this by my good self, Grayham's response was even better:
"Unfortunately it is the same one as eight weeks ago. It is not however, the same one as three years ago.
Only a lunatic could try and sell the idea that an entity is fighting the same war against a different enemy - and it just goes to show how deluded some anti-war people have become in the face of the massive failure which was their 'mass movement.'
Face it. You NEED it to be the same war don't you?"
Err ok, Mr Ham. It's me who's the nutter, obviously...
I'm not sure whether I'd fully agree with Will's conclusions about linking to Harry's Place; he thinks that any leftist who still links to them should "have their fucking head examined". I can certainly see where he's coming from though. And as for Grayham, if he really believes all that crap about there having been two Iraq wars since 2003, then maybe he's the one who needs the head examination.
posted by voltaires_priest at
5:19 PM
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